Virginia Tech

[Ballkick]

I can not put into words how bad I feel for the friends and families of the victims of this senseless crime.
I have given a lot of thought to this news item of late and was just wondering how the rest of you feel about this.
It would seem that stopping this sort of thing from happening ever again is too much to hope for.
Many experts feel that these incidents will escalate and that the world will see more of this type of behavior.
Would like to hear your thoughts?

[SoCoDanO22]

Yes, what happened yesterday is so horrible and no one should have to go through that type of ordeal.  My thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families and Virgina Tech.  It was truly a sad day. 

I agree with the experts, unfortunately.  The world we live in is driven by looking out for "number 1" and the search for material possessions.  There is a lack of sense of community and caring for fellow human beings.  Its as if we all are in competition with each other...  for grades, jobs, material things, status... the list can go on.  I feel that this competition pits people against one another.  The people that commit these horrible acts all seem to have certain things in common; loners, troubled, a sense of despair, unable to form healthy relationships.  So maybe this competition and a sense that some may have that its hopeless and a person cannot always "win" puts at risk individuals over the edge?   I am not an expert on this, but I feel that the every day hustle and bustle of being concerned with ourselves puts people that are at risk over this "edge."  "Go, go, go...  Lets get there fast and get it done faster."  Its as if we don't have time for people that need help(or don't have time to recognize it), and then all of a sudden its too late.

Its just odd to me to see that incidents like this and others that have happened seem to be something that only really happens in the US.  There have been some in other countries, I know and I'm not trying to generalize, but the frequency of these incidents is mind boggling and seems to be a large problem here!  I can only conclude that this has something to do with the way US culture is.  If this kind of thing happened once every 50 to 60 years I could write it off as he/she is a "crazy person", but this stuff happens quite frequently now-a-days! 

I am sure my argument here isn't without holes, but I just don't see this as something that is an isolated freak happening...  Something is very wrong, and its not just the people who commit these horrible acts.

[Ballkick]

As I have been reading and watching the news of this terrible event unfold over the past few days. Some things have come to light, that I had originally thought would.
The profile and disposition of this fiend was very similar to other mass murderers that have stained the ground with blood in the past.
Loner, troubled past, a sullen specter, anonymous, hurt by some perceived slight, erratic behavior, difficult to get along with, violent writing and behavior, fascination with arms and weapons,…or any other tell tale signs you care to interject here.
This guy was rolling off his rocker for awhile and despite this, he effectively flew under the radar of friends, acquaintances, and family and classmates.
Or did he?
I think we all know somebody like this who fits some or all of these traits.
I do.
And I always know deep inside that he has the potential for this type of rage.
Should I contact someone, on the chance that I may be right?
Should I ?
This is the question that faced at least a few of  Cho Seung-Hui’s acquaintances.
Undoubtedly, this will face others who have concerns about some unstable person in the future.
I guess it’s all of our responsibilities to insure that erratic behavior is reported to someone.
But to who, do we report this to?
What if I'm wrong?
I am thankfull of one thing, that getting a gun in Canada legally, would be impossible for this particular person. 

P.S. As recently as September 13th 2006, we too here in Canada had our own averted tragedy as Kimveeer Gill  shot one person dead and wounded 20 others in a shooting rampage in Montréal. Had it not been that there were police officers right on campus that day to take this creep out. The results could have been just as deadly as Virginia Tech.
This is “NOT” just a problem in the United States. It is a world wide problem.

[Fedak]

I totally agree with you there. One thing I find disturbing is that they keep mentioning the shooter as a S. Korean immigrant. He had been living in the US for 14 years. Isn't he a US citizen then? That just generalizes an entire peoples.

[SoCoDanO22]

I some what agree with you Федак.  I think the reason they keep mentioning it is not because they are trying to say all S. Koreans are like this, I think it has to do with the fact that its not a white, middle class kid like the majority of these shootings usually are.  I was surprised when I found out it wasn't some white kid, to be honest with you.

Hmm, I have never heard of the one in Montreal.  Horrible stuff! 

Apparently this kid at VT had been already tagged as a potential problem.  He set a fire in his dorm, stalked women, and wrote very dark and sadistic works.  He was even sentenced to counseling.  What I think is really horrible about this is that all these really APPARENT signs were clearly present but he was not dealt with in a proper manner.  Setting a fire in a dorm is pretty serious, not to mention stalking women.  This guy should have been kicked out of school.  What a shame!

[Ballkick]

See this is why I started this thread
 I was quite hesitant at first given the heartbreak and surprising brutality of the events that day.
But I thought that bringing in other sources and views would give me a better perspective on this madness.
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the shooters desperate act.
I want to understand,…why?
I had not heard some of the things Dan-o mentioned in his last post.
It is another jigsaw piece for me.
Deplorable that he had exhibited this type of behavior before and not been removed from the Campus by some authority.
The system failed again and one slipped through the cracks.
A failure with epic consequences.

[I.T.Chick]

It's too terrible to comprehend. 

I believe that he wasn't an american citizen.  I read "Permanent Alien Resident" whatever that means.

[snedro]

These are the consquences of freedom. Victims and their families... along with many others try to put blame on the school when in fact, there could have been no way to prevent this from happening. Are there other preventative measures that could have taken place? sure, there always are. But i'm positive, you could walk into a job place or school with a gun unnoticed and do this anywhere. Yeah, the kid obviously had issues and people knew that... but i'm sure we all know of somebody who has issues and hasn't went on a rampage such as this. There is no absolutle way of predicting an event such as this from happening and it has to be accepted. We benefit from being free and we'll also pay for it. It truely is a sad situation. I'd rather live in freedom than be apprehended and surveyed every second of my life.

[SoCoDanO22]

I would have to agree with you except that I think it was a combination of authorities (VT and Police) not doing their job that are to blame, snedro.  This guy was a documented problem.  I have been following this as much as I can and it seems that there were several things that allowed this nut to carry this massacre out. 

First off, and IMO, the most important blunder was the fact that after he was accused of stalking 2 women Cho Seung-Hui was temporarily detained for a psychiatric assessment, as he was suspected to be mentally ill and a danger to himself or others by a Montgomery County, Virginia district court, in 2005.  Now one would think that this was a step in the right direction of getting this sick bastard away from the public.  Here's where it gets screwed up...  A judge had signed an order saying that he “presents an imminent danger to self or others” and that Cho receive outpatient treatment at the time, but officials said they did not know whether Cho had received that counseling. Director of Virginia Tech’s counseling center, said that the hospital did not report to the university when Cho was released. The court would not have done so, he said, because the required treatment was part of a state judicial proceeding that did not involve the university.  Apparently the university police knew that Cho had been sent to the mental health facility after these stalking incidents, but other then that the school knew nothing.  VT has a "care team" that discusses troubled students, but none of the officials know if he was ever discussed, so it seams that they didn't know either.  After Cho's 2005 incidents there had been no other reports of him getting into trouble.  So it seems that after significant problems authorities were ok with the fact that this kid had dropped from the radar after having very real and messed up mental problems.

Now with the knowledge of his mental problems and stalking incidents, that right there should have been a HUGE red flag, but no information was ever exchanged and this kid got off scott free.

On top of all this, other documented problems was when he set a fire in his dorm room.  To me that seems like a slight problem.  Also, an English professor was disturbed by his writings and contacted the associate dean of students, the dean told the professor that there was no record of any problems and that nothing could be done...  This was all because the university knew nothing about how Cho “presents an imminent danger to self or others”.

This kid was a TIME BOMB waiting to be set off and its sad that no one saw it coming.  If the police would have had just a little communication with VT this mass murder may have been averted.  There is quite a bit more "signs" from Cho's recent past that pointed in the direction of trouble but Im sure you all can read about it. 

Im sure that neither the Police nor the school went out of their way to put students in harms way.  If this tragic day could have been stopped I am sure it would have been.  The problem is that the significant, and potential, problems that Cho Seung-Hui displayed would have been not taken so lightly and followed up on, Monday may have never happened.

[snedro]

Yeah. He definitely did have his share of issues and letting him go on the way he did could have been prevented. But you really can't blame anyone besides this kid for the way things turned out. There are thousands of cases of messed up kids doing similar things but have not gone on to shoot 60 people. I just find it interesting that he waited until he was 23 and a senior of college before he snapped. I can't debate about his thought process because the world may never really know why he did it... just find it weird how he subjected himself to a voluntary environment such as college to be set off. I almost feel like he wanted to have a reason to break.

[SoCoDanO22]

Well from the sounds of things this kid was messed up from the get go.  There could be any number of reasons why he snapped now and not earlier.  Most likely he has some type of support keeping him on the edge and something may have happened to that support.  Either way, whether he would have done it in high school or now its still horrible and there is no doubt in my mind that he was an evil psychopath.

[I.T.Chick]

I don't think it helped that he was on psych drugs. 

[SoCoDanO22]

Who knows...  Maybe if he was on different ones it would have helped?  I just hope that everyone at VT and the families can have a quick recovery and return to life.